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user Digest 20 Jun 2008 15:14:26 -0000 Issue 8100
Topics (messages 187854 through 187867):
Re: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
187854 by: Dave Newton
187857 by: Paul Zepernick
187861 by: Dave Newton
Re: [OT] What slows you down?
187855 by: Jim Kiley
187856 by: Dave Newton
187858 by: stanlick.gmail.com
187859 by: Martin
187860 by: Ian Roughley
187862 by: Don Brown
187863 by: Jim Kiley
187866 by: Frode T. Johansen
187867 by: Musachy Barroso
Re: validation and action names with slashes
187864 by: Roberto Nunnari
Extending Theme Issue (Struts 2.1.2)
187865 by: Nick Scavelli
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Attachment:
user_187854.ezm (zipped)I thought I already answered that? You can also narrow down the packages that will produce DEBUG-level statements; although that might be a bit hit-or-miss at this stage in the game.
Do you have the Jasper dependencies yet?
Dave
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Paul Zepernick <pzepernick@(protected):
> From: Paul Zepernick <pzepernick@(protected)>
> Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <user@(protected)>
> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 9:27 AM
> Another tidbit of information...The startup error only
> happen when maping an action result of type
> "jasper". If I take out the type, the server
> starts just fine with the jasper plugin jar. Is there
> something else I need to setup in the configuration to tell
> it about the jasper result type? Is there any way to get
> the actual error that caused the filter not to start?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> From: Paul Zepernick
> [mailto:pzepernick@(protected)]
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:07 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List';
> 'newton.dave@(protected)'
> Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
>
> I have downloaded jasper reports 2.0.5 and put all
> necessary depenendencies (as far as I can tell from this
> http://www.jasperforge.org/jaspersoft/opensource/business_intelligence/jasperreports/requirements.html)
> in the lib folder. Does anyone know how to possibly
> generate a class not found error or something so I can
> figure out exactly what is missing?
>
> Paul
>
> From: Paul Zepernick
> [mailto:pzepernick@(protected)]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:23 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List';
> 'newton.dave@(protected)'
> Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
>
> Thanks Dave. I will review the jar dependencies for Jasper.
> Right now I have installed the plugin and the jasper 1.3
> jar. I had tried DEBUG already but there was a TON of
> information to try and sift through and I did not get any
> kind of stack trace.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Zepernick
> Information Technology
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Newton [mailto:newton.dave@(protected)]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:19 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
>
> You *could* set the default log level to DEBUG, but stand
> back.
>
> My initial assumption, however, would be that you're
> missing Jasper dependencies, as you say "the jar"
> and there's around a half-dozen, give or take.
>
> Dave
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Paul Zepernick
> <pzepernick@(protected):
>
> > From: Paul Zepernick
> <pzepernick@(protected)>
> > Subject: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
> > To: "'user@(protected)'"
> <user@(protected)>
> > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 3:37 PM
> > How do we correctly setup logging in log4j to capture
> the
> > problem causing the SEVERE: Error filterStart? We are
> > trying to add in jasper reporting. We dropped in the
> jar
> > and receive this error when we configured a jasper
> result.
> > We have the log4j.properties in the classpath and have
> the
> > root logger configured to go to the console. We are
> > seeing other messages from log4j. Any advice on how I
> can
> > get the error causing the filter start to better
> diagnose
> > the problem?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Paul Zepernick
> > Information Technology
> >
> >
> > The information contained in this transmission
> contains
> > confidential information that is legally privileged.
> This
> > information is intended only for the use of the
> individual
> > or entity named above. The authorized recipient of
> this
> > information is prohibited from disclosing this
> information
> > to any other party unless required to do so by law or
> > regulation and is required to destroy the information
> after
> > its stated need has been fulfilled.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution,
> or
> > action taken in reliance on the contents of these
> documents
> > is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > information in error, please notify the sender
> immediately
> > by return email and arrange for the return or
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Attachment:
user_187857.ezm (zipped)
Dave,
Yes, I turned on debug and there was a ton of information, but no stack trace or anything else saying why the filter failed to start. I do have all the Jasper dependencies in now (that email is a couple down).
Thanks,
Paul Zepernick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Newton [mailto:newton.dave@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:31 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
I thought I already answered that? You can also narrow down the packages that will produce DEBUG-level statements; although that might be a bit hit-or-miss at this stage in the game.
Do you have the Jasper dependencies yet?
Dave
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Paul Zepernick <pzepernick@commercebenefitsgroup.com> wrote:
> From: Paul Zepernick <pzepernick@commercebenefitsgroup.com>
> Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
> To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <user@struts.apache.org>
> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 9:27 AM
> Another tidbit of information...The startup error only
> happen when maping an action result of type
> "jasper". If I take out the type, the server
> starts just fine with the jasper plugin jar. Is there
> something else I need to setup in the configuration to tell
> it about the jasper result type? Is there any way to get
> the actual error that caused the filter not to start?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> From: Paul Zepernick
> [mailto:pzepernick@commercebenefitsgroup.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:07 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List';
> 'newton.dave@yahoo.com'
> Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
>
> I have downloaded jasper reports 2.0.5 and put all
> necessary depenendencies (as far as I can tell from this
>
http://www.jasperforge.org/jaspersoft/opensource/business_intelligence/jasperreports/requirements.html)
> in the lib folder. Does anyone know how to possibly
> generate a class not found error or something so I can
> figure out exactly what is missing?
>
> Paul
>
> From: Paul Zepernick
> [mailto:pzepernick@commercebenefitsgroup.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:23 PM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List';
> 'newton.dave@yahoo.com'
> Subject: RE: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
>
> Thanks Dave. I will review the jar dependencies for Jasper.
> Right now I have installed the plugin and the jasper 1.3
> jar. I had tried DEBUG already but there was a TON of
> information to try and sift through and I did not get any
> kind of stack trace.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Zepernick
> Information Technology
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Newton [mailto:newton.dave@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:19 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
>
> You *could* set the default log level to DEBUG, but stand
> back.
>
> My initial assumption, however, would be that you're
> missing Jasper dependencies, as you say "the jar"
> and there's around a half-dozen, give or take.
>
> Dave
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Paul Zepernick
> <pzepernick@commercebenefitsgroup.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Paul Zepernick
> <pzepernick@commercebenefitsgroup.com>
> > Subject: Logging For SEVERE: Error filterStart
> > To: "'user@struts.apache.org'"
> <user@struts.apache.org>
> > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 3:37 PM
> > How do we correctly setup logging in log4j to capture
> the
> > problem causing the SEVERE: Error filterStart? We are
> > trying to add in jasper reporting. We dropped in the
> jar
> > and receive this error when we configured a jasper
> result.
> > We have the log4j.properties in the classpath and have
> the
> > root logger configured to go to the console. We are
> > seeing other messages from log4j. Any advice on how I
> can
> > get the error causing the filter start to better
> diagnose
> > the problem?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Paul Zepernick
> > Information Technology
> >
> >
> > The information contained in this transmission
> contains
> > confidential information that is legally privileged.
> This
> > information is intended only for the use of the
> individual
> > or entity named above. The authorized recipient of
> this
> > information is prohibited from disclosing this
> information
> > to any other party unless required to do so by law or
> > regulation and is required to destroy the information
> after
> > its stated need has been fulfilled.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution,
> or
> > action taken in reliance on the contents of these
> documents
> > is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > information in error, please notify the sender
> immediately
> > by return email and arrange for the return or
> destruction
> > of these
> >
> documents.---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > user-help@struts.apache.org
>
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> is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> information in error, please notify the sender immediately
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> of these documents.
>
> The information contained in this transmission contains
> confidential information that is legally privileged. This
> information is intended only for the use of the individual
> or entity named above. The authorized recipient of this
> information is prohibited from disclosing this information
> to any other party unless required to do so by law or
> regulation and is required to destroy the information after
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> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
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> information in error, please notify the sender immediately
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If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately by return email and arrange for the return or destruction of these documents.

Attachment:
user_187861.ezm (zipped)--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Paul Zepernick <pzepernick@(protected):
> Yes, I turned on debug and there was a ton of information,
> but no stack trace or anything else saying why the filter
> failed to start. I do have all the Jasper dependencies in
> now (that email is a couple down).
Ah.
Not sure what to tell you then; I'm using Jasper results in a few apps without issues, and without seeing any log outputs, lib directory contents, configs, and so on it's pretty difficult to provide any useful input at all.
(Consider sending plain-text emails, btw.)
Dave

Attachment:
user_187855.ezm (zipped)Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never noticed the JSP
debugger. How embarrassing.
jk
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Dave Newton <newton.dave@(protected)>
> wrote:
>
>> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
>> > I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs don't generate
>> > log statements (wow, wouldn't it be awesome if they
>> > could?).
>>
>> AFAIK they can, although I'll often just use a println. What environment
>> are you using that you don't have a JSP debugger, though?
>>
>
> Well it's possible that I'm just a dope on both of these points.
>
>
>>
>> > the most time-consuming part is figuring out what the
>> > hell the previous CF programmer wanted when he wrote
>> > his code.
>>
>> He wanted to not be programming in ColdFusion.
>>
>>
> So say we all.
>
>
> --
> Jim Kiley
> Technical Consultant | Summa
> [p] 412.258.3346 [m] 412.445.1729
> http://www.summa-tech.com
>
--
Jim Kiley
Technical Consultant | Summa
[p] 412.258.3346 [m] 412.445.1729
http://www.summa-tech.com

Attachment:
user_187856.ezm (zipped)> Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never
> noticed the JSP debugger. How embarrassing.
*lol*
I almost never use JSP debuggers, but on occasion they're *really* handy :)
Dave

Attachment:
user_187858.ezm (zipped)Actually, I applaud you. If you need to debug jsp pages, you have bigger
problems!
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
> Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never noticed the JSP
> debugger. How embarrassing.
>
> jk
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
>
> > On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Dave Newton <newton.dave@(protected)>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
> >> > I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs don't generate
> >> > log statements (wow, wouldn't it be awesome if they
> >> > could?).
> >>
> >> AFAIK they can, although I'll often just use a println. What environment
> >> are you using that you don't have a JSP debugger, though?
> >>
> >
> > Well it's possible that I'm just a dope on both of these points.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > the most time-consuming part is figuring out what the
> >> > hell the previous CF programmer wanted when he wrote
> >> > his code.
> >>
> >> He wanted to not be programming in ColdFusion.
> >>
> >>
> > So say we all.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Kiley
> > Technical Consultant | Summa
> > [p] 412.258.3346 [m] 412.445.1729
> > http://www.summa-tech.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kiley
> Technical Consultant | Summa
> [p] 412.258.3346 [m] 412.445.1729
> http://www.summa-tech.com
>
--
Scott
stanlick@(protected)

Attachment:
user_187859.ezm (zipped)something about the difference between developer (someone who only works one
version of an IDE)
and a software engineer who can engineer a solution (regardless of the IDE)
for debugging check out console out <c:out
http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/sandbox/doc/iterators-doc/index.html
HTH
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Newton" <newton.dave@(protected)>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <user@(protected)>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
>> I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs don't generate
>> log statements (wow, wouldn't it be awesome if they
>> could?).
>
> AFAIK they can, although I'll often just use a println. What environment
> are you using that you don't have a JSP debugger, though?
>
>> the most time-consuming part is figuring out what the
>> hell the previous CF programmer wanted when he wrote
>> his code.
>
> He wanted to not be programming in ColdFusion.
>
> Dave
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>
>

Attachment:
user_187860.ezm (zipped)And don't forget <s:debug /> and the debug interceptor (that I believe
dumps to log file/xml) :-)
Martin wrote:
> something about the difference between developer (someone who only
> works one version of an IDE)
> and a software engineer who can engineer a solution (regardless of the
> IDE)
>
> for debugging check out console out <c:out
> http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/sandbox/doc/iterators-doc/index.html
>
> HTH
> Martin
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Newton" <newton.dave@(protected)>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <user@(protected)>
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
>
>
>> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley <jhkiley@(protected):
>>> I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs don't generate
>>> log statements (wow, wouldn't it be awesome if they
>>> could?).
>>
>> AFAIK they can, although I'll often just use a println. What
>> environment are you using that you don't have a JSP debugger, though?
>>
>>> the most time-consuming part is figuring out what the
>>> hell the previous CF programmer wanted when he wrote
>>> his code.
>>
>> He wanted to not be programming in ColdFusion.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>

Attachment:
user_187862.ezm (zipped)This is an excellent question, Ted, thanks for bringing it up. At
Atlassian, we've been rolling out a few new internal applications
built on Grails and have been amazed how easy it can be. They take
production-ready libraries like Hibernate and Spring, then tie
everything together in a seamless way through the Grails layer and a
set of conventions. In particular, their tags are well-done, which is
a big productivity boon.
One of my main problems with Java development is the fact there are
just so many layers. To write a simple feature, you have to mess with
all sorts of languages, formats, conventions, and libraries. I'm
amused at this current "polygot programming" movement, as the Java
community has been writing apps in multiple languages from the
beginning. Just look at the number of languages and formats a
developer should know to write a Struts app:
* Java
* JSP
* JSTL
* XML (and its many schemas)
* HTML
* Javascript
* OGNL
* FreeMarker (to customize tags)
* Velocity (optional)
* and then all the libraries and their own little expression
languages and API's
Grails does a good job tying it together and dusting a nice layer of
Groovy on top of it all so yes, you can dig into those layers if you
want, but you don't have to. I'm not sure how exactly we'd bring that
to Struts, but I certainly see the need for better improving the
developer experience, because after all, that was the original purpose
of the Struts 2 project.
Don
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Ted Husted <husted@(protected):
> Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
>
> Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
> like web application development takes longer than it should. Some
> frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to "time to market"
> concerns and have been gathering many followers.
>
> But why does web application still seem so difficult or so
> time-consuming? Are there time bandits that still suck days or weeks
> out of your development schedule? Are there time gremlins that
> "nickel-and-dime" you every hour of every day? Is there anything more
> that frameworks like Apache Struts can do to help? Or are just there
> intractable problems with web development itself?
>
> Thoughts? :)
>
> -Ted.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>
>

Attachment:
user_187863.ezm (zipped)Part of what's going on for me is that Struts 2 provides me with such a
large improvement in productivity over the last two Java web frameworks that
I used (Struts 1 and JSF) I haven't yet gotten over my pleasure with the
framework. I haven't gotten ticked off at it yet, because even when
something isn't working the way I expected, and I'm mildly annoyed, there's
an almost audible pounding inside my head: STILL BETTER THAN JSF.
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Ted Husted <husted@(protected):
> Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
>
> Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
> like web application development takes longer than it should. Some
> frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to "time to market"
> concerns and have been gathering many followers.
>
> But why does web application still seem so difficult or so
> time-consuming? Are there time bandits that still suck days or weeks
> out of your development schedule? Are there time gremlins that
> "nickel-and-dime" you every hour of every day? Is there anything more
> that frameworks like Apache Struts can do to help? Or are just there
> intractable problems with web development itself?
>
> Thoughts? :)
>
> -Ted.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>
>
--
Jim Kiley
Technical Consultant | Summa
[p] 412.258.3346 [m] 412.445.1729
http://www.summa-tech.com

Attachment:
user_187866.ezm (zipped)- jsp tags
It was just confusing and time consuming to learn and do alot of c:if/c:forEach/c:choose and make it right. In the beginning I just escaped into java a lot <% %>
-struts tags
I still hate tags like the s:select mixed with i18n, ognl, converters and the lot.
1 mistake, 1 miss, 1 error, 1 type error, and you get NO CLUE WHAT SO EVER what is wrong.
-OGNL
%{}, #{}, ${} ... ????? what eh ... uh. Still don't understand the difference and alot of the complex syntax I find all over the place.
1 word - crap
Another word - total undebuggable
Why on earth do we have to do a lot of logic in jsp files with tags and el?? Gawd I hate that. Then you introduce ognl and struts tags cause el isn't good enough. It's a huge mess. Add sitemesh or whatever....
Boohoo - the web monkey use dreamweaver and can't code. He needs tags boohoo. But he does javascript and ajax, or pretty soon is out of work if he doesn't.
-XML
Xml is a nice tool/format/thingy to save data in. If I ever get a hold of the jerk that suggested to create a semi-sub-scripting-language in xml ...
1 error, 1 type error, 1 misunderstanding ... you will definitely not get a understandable error message if you get one at all....
I think xml was made with the intention that there should be a nice and easy tool on top you could play with, and that tool should save to xml, and then read from it again... not to hand code the crap with an obscure-hello-world-basic-documentation.
-Exceptions
Struts eats exceptions, and spit them out into something else. I have wasted hours in chasing exception I believed had to do with input, jsp, tags, and it turned out to be an simple sql exception from layers away. Don't ask me why or how.
-SET/GET types on objects
Have to be the same ... got it. F#¤% obscure error msg - wasted a few days on that one.
-Date sucks
I'm an non-American ... so we got different standards. Cool.
Ok, wasn't that hard to get yodatime to work, and an converter ... well I got help on that one, but I understand there is a lot of fuzz with it and struts tags.
-Validation
Is done by xml - great. Did I just said I hate xml?? No??
I HATE XML PROGRAMMING - ITS UNDEBUGGABLE.
How nice how the validator sits in between the view and action object and fixes itself.
What if I want to reuse this code?? What if I want to make logic that is based on result from validation, and type of validation error? I don't know how. I write my own validator.
Pointless.
-Converters
Nice idea ... when it works. If not I make my domain objects to take/return strings, and I make my own home/hand -made conversion. Pointless...
-Annotations
Poison.
And I have seen baaaaaaad annotation hell done in struts... Say no more.
-Debugging.
What does the request.paramterMap contains of variables form post/get? I have a small code for printing that... just pain to use the debugger for it.
What does the valuestack contains? I don't know...
What parameters are coming in from the post/get -> parameterinterceptor, and what is it trying to do? I don't know...
Littering the code with System.out doesn't quite work, but you get surprised sometimes on how stuff seems to work.
Debugging just sucks.
Exceptions generate enormous lists which you got to be quite expert to understand.
Coding in struts2 is 5min coding - 1h error hunting. I need to do this and that = 2h googling or code fiddling, 5min coding, 1h error hunting.
-- Struts2 sucks
I have spent 6months, and still struggle with it. I got initially expert help to boost my knowledge, but there is a long way until I can say Struts2 speeds up my development. 98% of my time is spent on google/error-hunting.
Struts books are ... thank god I piracy copied them first - they suck. Or in other words - they didn't give me any useful information.
It's really hard to learn and get used to Struts2. If I quit this job, then they got to recruit a struts2 programmer or re-train another which will take forever.
I believe Struts2 was made by a Geek trying to get rich. He introduces struts as a great framework - which it is in the hand of an expert. He does his job, then he quits. Later he is re-hired as an expensive consultant. I for sure are not advocating struts2.
But 98% of devs are not experts... prove me wrong.
Struts2 is by no way easy.
Java web is actually not easy at all if you start from scratch. My background is college and php. With php you download a LAMP/WAMP package and you can start code very fast with no brains at all. Stupid ppl can start code very fast in php. Great doc page too (php.net).
With java you got to setup the right java, eclipse, tomcat, drivers, configure them and make them work. JRE? JDK? JavaSE or JavaEE? Java 1.5 or Java 5? Sun pages is a mixture of mess.
You have to follow java web standards in how an web app should be organised in folders to be deployed. There is so much that can go wrong - and you just give up.
You have to learn java, jsp, servlet, java xml config, jsp tags in order to get up an hello world. Add struts2, struts2 xml, struts2 tags, ognl, etc etc
Html, css, javascript...
There are separate books for each of those I just mentioned. Find 10 errors.
If a new guy starting tomorrow in my job - with no struts skillz. Will he struggle? Will he get job done? Is my job interested in hiring this kind of ppl? My job want stuff produced, not students that remain as students for 1-2+ years
I want a simple world. Its 2008.
Look to php zend framework - they got a massive site that pretty much talks to an non-expert. Tutorials are pretty step-by-step which covers folder layout, config and everything. Its easy to take an example/demo -> unzip and run in apache. Then add/change stuff is dead easy.
Im not saying zend is everything, but I had a crud page up and running dead fast with db connection.
Only downside with php is that it's not enterprise mature, and has not got rid of easy-to-make-security-holes problems. And it doesn't scale that well in medium-large production environment since php introduce great freedoms to do spaghetti. And many php devs sucks... But I sure as hell prefer WAMP + notepad++ over any java crap. Cause I can get stuff done.
Struts have the benefit of making programming more structured. It's easy to make a huge mess in servlet/jsp programming that takes ages to rewrite. It separates the coding well. You can much easier have 2 different teams working on each part of an app without generating too much noise.
Mvh
Frode T. Johansen
> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: ted.husted@(protected)
> Husted
> Sendt: 20. juni 2008 13:43
> Til: Struts Users Mailing List
> Emne: [OT] What slows you down?
>
> Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
>
> Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
> like web application development takes longer than it should. Some
> frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to "time to market"
> concerns and have been gathering many followers.
>
> But why does web application still seem so difficult or so
> time-consuming? Are there time bandits that still suck days or weeks
> out of your development schedule? Are there time gremlins that
> "nickel-and-dime" you every hour of every day? Is there anything more
> that frameworks like Apache Struts can do to help? Or are just there
> intractable problems with web development itself?
>
> Thoughts? :)
>
> -Ted.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>

Attachment:
user_187867.ezm (zipped)I won't comment on all this, because, I am totally biased, and it is
friday after all, but here:
"Look to php zend framework"
that was it for me, lol.
musachy
Ok...I won't talk about the rest because I am obviously biased
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Frode T. Johansen
<Frode.Johansen@(protected):
> - jsp tags
> It was just confusing and time consuming to learn and do alot of c:if/c:forEach/c:choose and make it right. In the beginning I just escaped into java a lot <% %>
>
> -struts tags
> I still hate tags like the s:select mixed with i18n, ognl, converters and the lot.
> 1 mistake, 1 miss, 1 error, 1 type error, and you get NO CLUE WHAT SO EVER what is wrong.
>
> -OGNL
> %{}, #{}, ${} ... ????? what eh ... uh. Still don't understand the difference and alot of the complex syntax I find all over the place.
> 1 word - crap
> Another word - total undebuggable
>
> Why on earth do we have to do a lot of logic in jsp files with tags and el?? Gawd I hate that. Then you introduce ognl and struts tags cause el isn't good enough. It's a huge mess. Add sitemesh or whatever....
> Boohoo - the web monkey use dreamweaver and can't code. He needs tags boohoo. But he does javascript and ajax, or pretty soon is out of work if he doesn't.
>
> -XML
> Xml is a nice tool/format/thingy to save data in. If I ever get a hold of the jerk that suggested to create a semi-sub-scripting-language in xml ...
> 1 error, 1 type error, 1 misunderstanding ... you will definitely not get a understandable error message if you get one at all....
>
> I think xml was made with the intention that there should be a nice and easy tool on top you could play with, and that tool should save to xml, and then read from it again... not to hand code the crap with an obscure-hello-world-basic-documentation.
>
> -Exceptions
> Struts eats exceptions, and spit them out into something else. I have wasted hours in chasing exception I believed had to do with input, jsp, tags, and it turned out to be an simple sql exception from layers away. Don't ask me why or how.
>
> -SET/GET types on objects
> Have to be the same ... got it. F#¤% obscure error msg - wasted a few days on that one.
>
> -Date sucks
> I'm an non-American ... so we got different standards. Cool.
> Ok, wasn't that hard to get yodatime to work, and an converter ... well I got help on that one, but I understand there is a lot of fuzz with it and struts tags.
>
> -Validation
> Is done by xml - great. Did I just said I hate xml?? No??
> I HATE XML PROGRAMMING - ITS UNDEBUGGABLE.
> How nice how the validator sits in between the view and action object and fixes itself.
> What if I want to reuse this code?? What if I want to make logic that is based on result from validation, and type of validation error? I don't know how. I write my own validator.
> Pointless.
>
> -Converters
> Nice idea ... when it works. If not I make my domain objects to take/return strings, and I make my own home/hand -made conversion. Pointless...
>
> -Annotations
> Poison.
> And I have seen baaaaaaad annotation hell done in struts... Say no more.
>
>
> -Debugging.
> What does the request.paramterMap contains of variables form post/get? I have a small code for printing that... just pain to use the debugger for it.
> What does the valuestack contains? I don't know...
> What parameters are coming in from the post/get -> parameterinterceptor, and what is it trying to do? I don't know...
> Littering the code with System.out doesn't quite work, but you get surprised sometimes on how stuff seems to work.
> Debugging just sucks.
> Exceptions generate enormous lists which you got to be quite expert to understand.
>
> Coding in struts2 is 5min coding - 1h error hunting. I need to do this and that = 2h googling or code fiddling, 5min coding, 1h error hunting.
>
>
> -- Struts2 sucks
> I have spent 6months, and still struggle with it. I got initially expert help to boost my knowledge, but there is a long way until I can say Struts2 speeds up my development. 98% of my time is spent on google/error-hunting.
> Struts books are ... thank god I piracy copied them first - they suck. Or in other words - they didn't give me any useful information.
>
> It's really hard to learn and get used to Struts2. If I quit this job, then they got to recruit a struts2 programmer or re-train another which will take forever.
>
> I believe Struts2 was made by a Geek trying to get rich. He introduces struts as a great framework - which it is in the hand of an expert. He does his job, then he quits. Later he is re-hired as an expensive consultant. I for sure are not advocating struts2.
>
> But 98% of devs are not experts... prove me wrong.
>
> Struts2 is by no way easy.
> Java web is actually not easy at all if you start from scratch. My background is college and php. With php you download a LAMP/WAMP package and you can start code very fast with no brains at all. Stupid ppl can start code very fast in php. Great doc page too (php.net).
>
> With java you got to setup the right java, eclipse, tomcat, drivers, configure them and make them work. JRE? JDK? JavaSE or JavaEE? Java 1.5 or Java 5? Sun pages is a mixture of mess.
> You have to follow java web standards in how an web app should be organised in folders to be deployed. There is so much that can go wrong - and you just give up.
> You have to learn java, jsp, servlet, java xml config, jsp tags in order to get up an hello world. Add struts2, struts2 xml, struts2 tags, ognl, etc etc
> Html, css, javascript...
> There are separate books for each of those I just mentioned. Find 10 errors.
>
> If a new guy starting tomorrow in my job - with no struts skillz. Will he struggle? Will he get job done? Is my job interested in hiring this kind of ppl? My job want stuff produced, not students that remain as students for 1-2+ years
>
> I want a simple world. Its 2008.
>
> Look to php zend framework - they got a massive site that pretty much talks to an non-expert. Tutorials are pretty step-by-step which covers folder layout, config and everything. Its easy to take an example/demo -> unzip and run in apache. Then add/change stuff is dead easy.
> Im not saying zend is everything, but I had a crud page up and running dead fast with db connection.
>
> Only downside with php is that it's not enterprise mature, and has not got rid of easy-to-make-security-holes problems. And it doesn't scale that well in medium-large production environment since php introduce great freedoms to do spaghetti. And many php devs sucks... But I sure as hell prefer WAMP + notepad++ over any java crap. Cause I can get stuff done.
>
> Struts have the benefit of making programming more structured. It's easy to make a huge mess in servlet/jsp programming that takes ages to rewrite. It separates the coding well. You can much easier have 2 different teams working on each part of an app without generating too much noise.
>
>
> Mvh
> Frode T. Johansen
>
>> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
>> Fra: ted.husted@(protected)
>> Husted
>> Sendt: 20. juni 2008 13:43
>> Til: Struts Users Mailing List
>> Emne: [OT] What slows you down?
>>
>> Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
>>
>> Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
>> like web application development takes longer than it should. Some
>> frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to "time to market"
>> concerns and have been gathering many followers.
>>
>> But why does web application still seem so difficult or so
>> time-consuming? Are there time bandits that still suck days or weeks
>> out of your development schedule? Are there time gremlins that
>> "nickel-and-dime" you every hour of every day? Is there anything more
>> that frameworks like Apache Struts can do to help? Or are just there
>> intractable problems with web development itself?
>>
>> Thoughts? :)
>>
>> -Ted.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>
>
--
"Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd

Attachment:
user_187864.ezm (zipped)Hi Jeromy!
The Convention plugin looks very interesting! Does it work
with 2.1.3-SNAPSHOT ? I'd like to give it a try this weekend.
What about mixing it with tiles?
Would it require specifying tiles results thus breaking
the convenience of conventions?
--
Robi
Jeromy Evans wrote:
> Roberto Nunnari wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2) action names with wildcards and '!' (ie '*!*') are not usable for
>> declarative action-alias validation. No idea why.
>>
> This works:
>
> <action name="manageAccount!*" method="do{1}"
> class="package.ManageAccountAction">
>
> matches the XML validation:
> ManageAccountAction-manageAccount!ChangePassword-validation.xml
>
> where doChangePassword is the name of the method to be invoked in
> ManageAccountAction
>
> The following setting is important as the ! is just a separator char
> (nothing special)
> # disable the old (bang) XWorks2 notation of dynamic invocation of
> actions. Wildcards are still permitted
> struts.enable.DynamicMethodInvocation = false
>
> My advice is not to use this feature of Struts2 and instead keep it
> simple (follow the convention of the Convention plugin, even if not in
> use yet).
>
> regards,
> Jeromy Evans.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@(protected)
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@(protected)
>

Attachment:
user_187865.ezm (zipped)
I am struggling to extend a theme for my web application. The parent property in theme.properties does not seem to work for my custom theme I am trying to implement. Theme name is ccast2_0, and I have added struts.ui.theme=ccast2_0 and struts.ui.templateDir=template to struts.properties. Side note you cannot have a period in the theme name. Adding struts.ui.theme=ccast2.0 threw a NullPointerException. Changed to 2_0 and it worked, sorta...Continuing on:
According to the documentation I should be able to have /template/ccast2_0 with a theme.properties file and parent=xhtml in the file and be set. Not the case since I'm getting this error:
06/20/2008 10:44:26,859 ERROR (com.opensymphony.xwork2.util.logging.commons.CommonsLogger:24) - Could not load the FreeMarker template named 'form-close':
06/20/2008 10:44:26,859 ERROR (com.opensymphony.xwork2.util.logging.commons.CommonsLogger:24) - Attempted: /template/ccast2_0/form-close.ftl
06/20/2008 10:44:26,859 ERROR (com.opensymphony.xwork2.util.logging.commons.CommonsLogger:24) - The TemplateLoader provided by the FreeMarker Configuration was a: freemarker.cache.MultiTemplateLoader
06/20/2008 10:44:26,859 ERROR (com.opensymphony.xwork2.util.logging.commons.CommonsLogger:28) - error when rendering
java.io.FileNotFoundException: Template /template/ccast2_0/form-close.ftl not found.
at freemarker.template.Configuration.getTemplate(Configuration.java:489)
at freemarker.template.Configuration.getTemplate(Configuration.java:452)
If I copy all the xhtml theme files from the struts2 jar into this folder, guess what it works. This is not extending, that's copying. I also copied all theme files from the struts2 jar: simple, xhtml, css_xhtml, into my /template/<theme> directory to see if that worked and no dice. I must be doing something extremely stupid here because I haven't seen any posts regarding this issue.
Please advise !
Cheers,
Nick
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